I agree with Balex. As I've said elsewhere, I think that, particularly in New York, there's a highly involved semiotic system within the food world by which people measure themselves or are measured by others. You do any entertaining in this town, and you aren't just serving food - you're offering your guests a set of highly developed semes which place you somewhere or another on a scale of sophistication. There's far more than deliciousness at stake.

Some things you just don't want to imagine.

There is nothing illegal about turtle soup, btw.

mmm, mmm good

I've had turtle soup right here in Brooklyn.

Maybe the legality is different if they come from the Gowanus Canal.

the SuperFund status is probably different

Those, my friend, are mutant ninja turtles. Eating them will give you serious heartburn.

Why not? If Wylie can serve deconstructed bagel and lox and cold fried chicken, Liebrandt is surely capable of a pork pie ice cream or Tizer foam.



Sorry, Irn-Bru...

Orik is right about technological change making some things outdated and unfashionable. Post-Magimix, smooth purees are no longer a sign of great wealth.

Conversely, I recently had a piece of cod at Troisgros in Roanne. Now there are only 10 cod left in the world, it is ok to serve this fish in a 3-star restaurant.

Green sea turtles have been a protected species in the US since the Endangered Species Act was passed in 1973. Here's some information. It says in part:

"Green Sea Turtles, which are currently an endangered species, are protected in the United States under the Endangered Species Act (ESA) of 1973, and under international standards, like those of CITES, which protects green sea turtles in over 150 countries (CITES 2001). The ESA, in cooperation with the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service (USFWS), prohibits capture, possession, sale, and hunting of the green sea turtle, gives money and land to states to aid conservation efforts, and imposes civil and criminal punishment on violators of these mandates. ""

Doubt you will find any other Florida turtles in that Key West Florida turtle soup either (unless they come from freshwater turtle farms):

http://www.publicnewsservice.org/index.php.../article/9397-1

So where do the turtles in that soup come from - and what kind of turtles are they (should say somewhere on the label - unless that's a "stock" photo of an old can - which is what it looks like to me)?

I think we can safely say that any food is out of date if it is no longer legal to catch it or possess it. Robyn

Other than the Gowanus, doesn't that have to be the answer?

(I wasn't kidding about having turtle soup in Brooklyn recently. It's the best dish by far at a restaurant called Henry's End. I am POSITIVE they're not using illegal or out-of-date ingredients.)

Galatoire's restaurant in New Orleans. Their current menu.

Less than five minutes time on Google reveals that frozen freshwater turtle meat is easily available.

Turtle soup is very popular around here, a lot of places serve it. What's the issue?

Henry's End wild game menu.

Thanks for the clarification. They look good . Robyn

The same thing goes on in other realms. There's an article in this month's Vanity Fair lamenting things like the Kindlle - because you can no longer pre-judge a person by looking at the book he or she is reading.

As far as New York is concerned - I have a cousin there who's pretty high up. And in her group of 60+ year old X-rays - no one eats (it's hard to stay a size 4 at that age if you eat). It's painful to go out to a really good restaurant with her. Guess what you serve to others becomes especially important if you don't indulge in food yourself. Robyn

Turtles, you want turtles?

I'm confused. I don't know anything about cod fish. Except we had lunch at a new local "fish camp" kind of place - and the whole menu - except for one dish - didn't contain local fish (which I didn't care for at all). It advertised one of the specials as a "cod fish" sandwich. At a lot less than Troisgrois prices (like $8). So this can't be the same "cod fish" (perhaps there is a difference between North American and European cod fish?). Or were they maybe lying about it being cod fish? Robyn

Maybe there are some freshwater turtles - or tortoises - in certain states that aren't protected (I'd have to check - but I'm pretty sure all sea turtles are protected - and I don't think their range extends up to the northeast). But I did a little googling - and most of the turtle sites say that only farm raised is legal. I wouldn't rule out the possibility of states other than Florida having certain non-protected species - but if I were a betting man - I'd say odds are you had farm raised turtle.

I did look at the restaurant web site - and it described the dish as "New Orleans turtle soup". Which really doesn't tell you where the turtle came from (e.g., it could come from a farm in Florida and be cooked "New Orleans style"). But hey - if it's good - it's good. We eat all kinds of things that are raised on farms - and if turtles can be raised on farms without threatening wild turtles - and they taste good - that's great. We go out to the Jacksonville Beach pier a few times a year and see lots of sea turtles. Magnificent animals. I would no sooner think of killing and eating one than I would an elephant. Even the freshwater turtles that live in my back yard are really cute (although they bite). Note that turtle farms have been around for a long time. I recall visiting one on Grand Cayman maybe 20 years ago.

As far as the Gowanus goes - I have a couple of friends who work at the Archie Carr turtle research center at the University of Florida. One of the perks of their job (at least before our currrent economic crisis) was to visit warm tropical paradises to research turtles. Bad economy or not - I doubt they will ever do a field trip to the Gowanus . Robyn

I have no belief that the turtle comes from New Orleans. I would completely assume it comes from a farm.

The issue is whether it's wild or farm raised. From what I've read - odds are very high it's farm raised (not that there's anything wrong with that - it's a way of preserving threatened and endangered species).

And note we're talking (smaller) freshwater turtles - not sea turtles (green - as shown on that can of soup - or otherwise) - which are definitely protected - and really don't lend themselves to being farmed (if for no other reason than it takes decades for them to reach maturity - they can live up to 80 years or so). Sea turtles receive all kinds of protection in Florida (for example - if you have any kind of place on the beach - you can't turn on lights that face beachside after dark during nesting season (that makes the baby turtles walk in the wrong direction after they hatch). Robyn

Not the same. Assuming they weren't doing something even more nefarious (I bet they were but I'm not the accusing type) it was Pacific Cod.

Pacific Cod - 3.50 lb
Or maybe Ling Cod which is even cheaper.

Real Atlantic Cod is expensive.

That's adorable - and they're much easier to deal with than Canadian geese! Robyn

Thanks for the explanation. I suspect whatever is the cheapest - that's what they were serving (didn't care for the restaurant at all) - same or worse cod than I might find in Publix (local grocery store) or Costco or Whole Foods. Fish can get very confusing. I know all the local stuff - but don't eat the non-local stuff frequently enough to learn the "fine points". Robyn

OK - I've read this 20 times. And I still don't understand what you're trying to say. Last time I ran across language like this was in a course on Semantics - taught by a deconstructivist philosophy professor (and that was a long time ago). Robyn